The unfortunate series of scandals currently enveloping Harvest Bible Chapel seem to have a recurring theme–money. What does the Bible say about Christian teachers and money?
The unfortunate series of scandals currently enveloping Harvest Bible Chapel seem to have a recurring theme–money. What does the Bible say about Christian teachers and money?
The article in question:
http://www.dailyherald.com/news/20190125/mancow-speaking-my-truth-to-harvest-bible-chapels-pastor-james
Thanks Fat Junie! We missed that!
Thank you for great sharing.
You are most welcome Linda.
Bless the name of the LORD for preaching truth according to Holy Scripture. Now if only we could discern and understand “the truth” so that we could walk in the freedom of said truth. May the LORD bless and keep us all! Shalom, Lamplighter 2019 out!
Fortunately we have a helper Lamp Lighter! John 16:13 says “But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth.”
@For Such a Time As This Thank you sir! Yes indeed we have the Holy Comforter, that leads us into all truth! …But unfortunately there are many that still choose to walk in the flesh – where deception waits! Shalom, Lamplighter 2019 out!
what is the name of the LORD? ————
$42 million in debt? A criminal complaint is in order. McDonald belongs in prison as well as some elders and other leadership
David Alan you are an idiot!
Here is the truth: For some reason, God has allowed this sin to run its course – and we who deem ourselves innocent of such a thing need to remember, there is only one body. When one member of it hurts, we all hurt. SIN is like leaven and it permeates while we’re not looking just given a little mixture with time. Scripture says, if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another AND the blood of Jesus CLEANSES us from ALL unrighteousness…. and God keeps pouring in the oil… into a clean vessel.
In debt to whom? How? Who would not cut them off at $1 mill?
How did the elders allow this? Should have called in Dave Ramsey
Just a few years back there $71 million in debt! Just outrageous how this went on for so long.
You are the idiot. The amount of debt is meaningless, it is debt in relation to assets and income that matters. On that score Julie Roys’ World Magazine is far worse off since their debt exceeds assets, far from the case at Harvest. @Genavieve Shaw
@Jo Shockey James MacDonald,his family and the church need our prayers. There but for the grace of God go any of us.
On another blog, it was told HBC owns a parcel of land which includes a herd of deer which is used for gaming. Anyone who shoots and kills a deer will have to have $8,000. The $8,000 is then used for scholarship. Good grief, HBC will do anything for money
I’m sure you will too.
You are a great brother in Christ and a man of God’s Word! Thank you!
Sad, I came across harvest chapel over 1 year ago and listened to pastor James on those free downloaded sermons and listened with conviction. Now all these stories come out, I hope it’s all a misunderstanding as God surely would judge those who preach his word but don’t adhere to it!! It truly is a sad day for all Christians when such a unthinkable scandal breaks!
Robert, Yes, it is a sad day–in any case. More information is generally better than less. I humbly suggest you look into the details and do your best to discern the truth.
40 or 50 million in Debt is no mere “misunderstanding” Putting guilt trip pressure on the thousands of tithing ‘little people’ in the church to tithe even more is intentional is NOT a misunderstanding
So the issue is abuse of power! James MacDonald had absolute power and wielded that power to enrich himself and his family. The congregation at HBC came to identify with MacDonald more so than Christ and the Word. Prayers go out to the congregation who have been fleeced by MacDonald and family and left the church $42MM in debt. This is not leadership or biblical leadership.
@Susannah White Others in leadership must have turned a blind eye towards the problem because as the bible says money is the answer for everything.
Mark, I agree with much you have said, but Bob Loblawb makes a good point. We do have to be careful and realize that if we are ‘looking the other way’ because we ‘don’t want to know’ God will hold us responsible. Certainly there must have been some of that here as well.
My prayers go out to all you wielding your righteous finger.
Bob Loblawb f
@Lisa McKoy ?
Thank you for your teaching on this! God bless you. Prayers for the sheep who are being fleeced by their so called shepherds.
Yup yup.
You said, “IF this is true…”
Regardless of whether any of this is true or not, you are guilty of gossip.
Ephesians 4:29 says,
“Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen.”
This is not gossip, it’s an actual event. As it’s become a focus on local and national news it’s a legitimate story
Oolala Mme, and here you are, a person who does not rightly divide the word of truth and one who travels the broad road of emotion. Do study up a bit…Christians are required to test every spirit and judge accordingly
Oolala Mme, and here you are, a person who does not rightly divide the word of truth and one who travels the broad road of emotion. Do study up a bit…Christians are required to test every spirit and judge accordingly
Oolala Mme, and here you are, a person who does not rightly divide the word of truth and one who travels the broad road of emotion. Do study up a bit…Christians are required to test every spirit and judge accordingly
Oolala Mme, and here you are, a person who does not rightly divide the word of truth and one who travels the broad road of emotion. Do study up a bit…Christians are required to test every spirit and judge accordingly
Oolala, gossip is idle talk or rumor about personal or private affairs. This situation is neither personal nor private. It is about sin in church leadership. At this point it is well publicized and substantiated. Part of the reason this has gone unaddressed for so long is that leaders at Harvest convinced the congregation that it was gossip to even investigate the claims.
@For Such a Time As This exactly and I’m still hearing it. Thank you so much for your insight & matching to scripture
“If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.”
1 Timothy 6:3-10 KJV
Let’s see where you have excess.
How pertinent to this situation!
Truthfully this is all great and wonderful. The true believers are now seeing that the Lord does not dwell in buildings. The true believers are now seeking for the Holy Spirit to be their teacher and worshiping the Father on their own in their own place. The Lord is separating many from the house of Satan. Give to the government what is theirs and give to God what is Gods. We seek not after man for we have the Holy Spirit to teach us
“These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
1 John 2:26-27 KJV
We have a new worship built by the hands of Christ Jesus Savior. Let them keep their god and we will look to Christ Jesus who provides all our needs
Frank you are right. The Lord does NOT dwell in buildings. He dwells in us, but He also tells us that we are God’s family and not to forsake meeting with each other. We are called the body of Christ and described as a family. It may not be easy to find a good church but don’t give up! (Hebrews 10:25)
Their God is money so easy to see
For you cannot serve God and mammon. (Matthew 6:24) The Bible nails it doesn’t it?
@For Such a Time As This oh yes for those that have an ear to hear
Many of these so called mega churches have had issues with leadership/founders becoming so focused on growing an empire, a bit like building a corporation. They gain undue influence and biblically unsupported authority. They get paid big salaries, sell books, study material, cd’s etc. have all expenses paid speaking engagements and while becoming rich themselves God’s word becomes the tool for their prosperity. It is not hard to see how even a true believer could get sucked in by their own success. It’s about them more than Christ!
Hallelujah and amen
Yes Jack. Temptations can be great for a popular pastor. That is one reason it’s very important to have a godly elder board who isn’t afraid to challenge you and hold you accountable.
Jack you hit on the head. These mega churches are just entertaining goats to keep them happy, meanwhile the sheep are starving. I have been a Christian for a long time. It saddens me to see what is happening in many mega churches. Many do not even teach true bible study it’s a watered down version of scriptures to appeal to the masses.
Jack you hit on the head. These mega churches are just entertaining goats to keep them happy, meanwhile the sheep are starving. I have been a Christian for a long time. It saddens me to see what is happening in many mega churches. Many do not even teach true bible study it’s a watered down version of scriptures to appeal to the masses.
Amen! Thank you for sharing this Brother. I’m a born again Christian. I’ve been through over 50 years of playing church & having had been taken for over a $hundred$ plus thousand $. Thank God for being delivered from the bondage of works based, dominion, seed faith, prosperity false Gospel. I’m retired now and the Lord has given me this ministry (I fully fund myself) to expose these wolves. We’ve recently finished an 800 page EBook with over 2,000 references exposing the apostate churches today and showing biblical doctrine and scripture never discussed in these fake churches. This work includes my personal testimony of attending hundreds of churches, mega, small, black, hillbilly, korean, pentecostal, evangelical, baptist, Lutheran, methodist, multiple catholic masses, catholic high school, etc… around the world, the outrageous apostasy including the only true churches the underground churches in Vietnam, my years ministering there, and China and the small assemblies I’ve attended here in the US. It all began for me in 1975 when my then Pastor Charles E. Blair was charged with over 17 SEC violations including defrauding his investors and flock for millions. I was heartbroken. But because of bondage and fear of not being right with the Lord of losing my salvation, I kept paying to play. including my $25,000. check to an Assembly of God pastor who needed money to build his church in Hawaii. After he took the money, It didn’t stop there… If only one person learns from me, it will all be worth it. Make no mistake Saints. Today’s 501C3 operations (and even most not 501c3), called churches run by Jesuit trained CEOs called pastors are NOT BIBLICAL. Wake up! I back up every claim with references.
https://thirdheaventraveler.blogspot.com/2018/12/i-don-go-to-church-from-blood-bought.html
Andrew Sheets amen Mr. Sheets… over this past year the good Lord via the Holy Spirit has taught me that many many pastors have called themselves to the pulpits.. and only in it for filthy lucre and prestige and care nothing about the flock. The Bible calls them hirelings.. God calls us sheep for a reason because sheep are stupid.. only being truthful. Many do not read their bibles and cling to their pastors as if he died on the Cross.
For the last 5 years I’ve been sent to call out such pastors in the San Antonio Tx area.. in fact last Wednesday I was assaulted by the pastor n co pastor because I called them out for being under a Jezebel spirit. Very controlling and manipulative..
Anyhow, in your ebook do u have any details on the New IBF? The Sanderson cult in Tempe, Arizona?
God bless u for having the courage to write this book and bringing their tactics to the forefront
Brother Andrew, it sounds like you have been through the ringer and I am sorry for that. But don’t give up. They may be few and far between but there are still good churches and faithful elders and pastors. I hope you will reconsider your decision not to be part of a church body. Our Lord tells us in scripture that we to meet together and the way the country is going surely we will need each other in the coming days! (Hebrews 10:25)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrU5rRPaX3E&t=982st
amen brother..would love to reach out to you.
about your post read Hebrews 3:12-16 conditional salvation based on present faith. IT CAN BE LOST. 1 Cor.10:1-9
This is one of the many reasons people are “falling away” from the church and not attending…
ramiro perez, amen! Life groups and small gatherings of believers where we can be honest and vulnerable with each other seems to bear the most fruit.
ramiro perez, amen! Life groups and small gatherings of believers where we can be honest and vulnerable with each other seems to bear the most fruit.
ramiro perez, amen! Life groups and small gatherings of believers where we can be honest and vulnerable with each other seems to bear the most fruit.
ramiro perez, amen! Life groups and small gatherings of believers where we can be honest and vulnerable with each other seems to bear the most fruit.
Yes Zachary I think you are right. But forsaking meeting together isn’t the answer either. (Hebrews 10:25) We must expect that all human leaders will fail at some point. Our Lord never fails. We need to look at Him and not use these kind of scandals as an excuse to write off the Truth.
if we only step back and look at this flawed model called church. It is NOT WHAT CHRIST IS BUILDING. If one is not building upon the rock Christ himself his work is wood hay and straw. The model is wrong. IF we returned to home gatherings, each one being part of the whole functioning according to 1 Cor.14:26-38 and Ephesians 4:16. No corporation, no tax receipts, no elders making the decision on behalf of the body! Pastor works at a job like the rest of us. ONLY TRAVELING APOSTLES are to be supported. Evangelists too. Prophets do not need to be supported by the church. Completely different model. That’s the problem.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrU5rRPaX3E&t=982s
@Tim Germainyour statement makes one think…hmmm?
mmm… speak for yourself…follow the word of God ..NOT man….its so important for every Believer to have a personally relationship with God….Remember he want fail/nor disappoint you…but man will Fail/Disapoint…So..we must move on and pray for that Man of God that he will ask God to search his Heart in Jesus Name
I would listen to James on the radio almost every morning on my way to work. It’s sad whats going on for the people in the church and how he has allowed his PRIDE to blind him. I pray that God will put the right person to lead his sheep. I pray James repents and humbles himself before the Lord and apologizes and continues to seek God. Stay strong brother and sisters in Christ for he is the one we aim to be like. Our focus.
Who’s to say he wont repent? If he repents and turns away from his sin God will forgive him. Can he be trusted to lead a church probably never. We reap what we sow. But his soul is worth saving. Isnt it?
@ramiro perez -God gave Jezebel HERSELF time to repent and she did not. There is *no Jezebel Spirit* in the Bible. None. Jesus was speaking about Jezebel HERSELF.. People need to quit twisting the Scriptures to suit their own means. Sorry, it’s TRUE. The Scriptures say what they mean, no more, no less.
P Najera I listened to him daily too. I am sadden by this. Thought it was strange that his broadcast was no longer being heard in my area. Focus on Jesus.
@Mary Mclocke Amen
Thank you for showing everyone what a real believer is. HBC and MacDonald spent so much energy criticizing the brethren about not perfectly practicing their faith, when they themselves were exactly the same as the Pharisees and those who doing business in the temple the preached against. Any church focused on money, power, or the things the world desires is obviously not a representative of the Lord
Yes. The apostle Paul’s attitude should be our model.
https://youtu.be/x74L5TVmBz8
Blessings
…and all the while our church is using MacDonalds ‘Act Like Men’ book for the men’s life group. The book appears quite good at this point, but I am torn since the author appears to be not of good character in real life.
All this reminds me to trust in Christ alone since humans will always fail and disappoint.
@For Such a Time As This what I mean is as Christians, we are meant to love and to bring the fallen back gently. But when a leader or someone falls, immediately we judge anything that person has done as evil. What do I mean by this? James McDonald’s “act like men” books and group study guides are not null and void because he failed or went astray. I deal with the fallen in ministry. Statistically, the overwhelming majority of those sitting in the pews are dealing with far worse in their lives than others, but yet will be the first to throw a stone in judgment nulling any work done by a fallen. I’m just merely starting to this person to be careful not to be one of these people. Act like men is biblically sound. I have it sitting on my book shelf in front of me. The scripture and stories in scripture are filled with sinners. God used many of those people in the midst of their sin. In other words, we would have to throw out much of scripture because the author fell at one time…we need to do the same with Christians as God has done. Because they sinned does not mean all their sound books and teachings need to be thrown in the garbage.
@agreenenergygroup I understand your point and agree with some of it. But, even if someone produces something that is biblical sound that persons actions can make it difficult to receive truth from them. That is why it is so important to let your walk match your talk. I can guarantee you that Jim Jones said some true things in some of his sermons. Would I recommend people to read and learn from Jim Jones? Why not? Yes McDonald has said some good things in the past and yes God probably used him in the past. But at what point has trust been lost to a point where it is hard to hear from that poisoned well? And by the way, scripture holds leaders to a different standard to those sitting in the pews. But yes, let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
@For Such a Time As This you certainly aren’t trying to compare Jim Jones to James McDonald. To be honest, Jim Jones never was on point with scripture. His church was a political movement that is still prevalent today in many churches (reverend Wright’s church is a perfect example). But he also claimed to be God. James McDonald became greedy, but it doesn’t negate his works. I’m sure glad king David wasn’t negated after his sin with Bathsheba. Good Lord, one of his best scripture was written at that time. But like you said, leaders are held at a different standard. Should we tear all the scripture written by him after his fall? No! One thing is true in God’s business of grace, he doesn’t waist anything! If it isn’t true, then what are any of us men doing in those pews? What are we doing being father’s or husband because we all know a man will have impure thoughts sitting on his couch watching a simple commercial or driving by a highway billboard. We need to throw in the towel and give up our families because we failed and sinned. And your wife and kids are failures too because your failure negated any good you did before your fall. I’m obviously going far with this to prove a point. It is ludicrous to think any previous teachings should be tossed because someone publicly fell, never mind the daily falls no one sees or knows about except God. You are 100 percent correct that leaders are held at a higher standard, but we must discern of the sin, not the work done prior to that sin.
@agreenenergygroup It seems you keep making excuses for behaviors going back 20 years. If all the reporting and testimonies are true then this was not a slip up. This was the normal pattern. That being the case I think the well is poisoned. I think that is where we differ. By the way, you can’t speak of forgiveness yet in this case because JM has not confessed to any wrong doing yet.
@For Such a Time As This I’m not making any excuses. I am speaking spiritual truth. But you are correct he has not asked for forgiveness. But going back 20 years? Allegations are always made of anyone in power. It does not make it true. I do think the man is guilty of some things, but I also know those that could have put a stop to it, did not. From being in power myself, I know someone is going to be hurt and angry. In turn, attitudes and the struggles of all involved come forth. It does not mean that God cannot use anything I have done as a leader. In fact, there is nothing I can do to stop God from moving or using my works in his name. Thankfully we serve a God that moves in spite of us. No sin is above any other. There is only one unforgivable sin…denying Him. I say this because, we all forget that we are full of sin moments after asking for forgiveness of our sins. There is one truth to sin, there is consequences. Jm is reaping that now. But I have no doubt he struggled with his sin, just as Paul did in the midst of his ministry. Still, GOD blessed them. I think me and you differ in judgement. I know my heart and how I fail God every day, but I know I want to serve Him. I can’t see in scripture, Anyone above reproach, but yet we keep acting like we do. Maybe a handful could be given above in faith, but the majority were not above…even the disciples who were present for Christ ministry. Maybe I am misunderstanding your approach, but I’m not seeing it. Plus, this person I responded to on this thread is confused thinking His church leadership is a mess for having him and others go through Jm study, when his church is completely correct in using that study. I can say with confidence that this person does not have to doubt. It is completely and utterly biblical. And no one should be made to feel otherwise based on non biblical fact.
…and all the while our church is using MacDonalds ‘Act Like Men’ book for the men’s life group. The book appears quite good at this point, but I am torn since the author appears to be not of good character in real life.
All this reminds me to trust in Christ alone since humans will always fail and disappoint.
@For Such a Time As This what I mean is as Christians, we are meant to love and to bring the fallen back gently. But when a leader or someone falls, immediately we judge anything that person has done as evil. What do I mean by this? James McDonald’s “act like men” books and group study guides are not null and void because he failed or went astray. I deal with the fallen in ministry. Statistically, the overwhelming majority of those sitting in the pews are dealing with far worse in their lives than others, but yet will be the first to throw a stone in judgment nulling any work done by a fallen. I’m just merely starting to this person to be careful not to be one of these people. Act like men is biblically sound. I have it sitting on my book shelf in front of me. The scripture and stories in scripture are filled with sinners. God used many of those people in the midst of their sin. In other words, we would have to throw out much of scripture because the author fell at one time…we need to do the same with Christians as God has done. Because they sinned does not mean all their sound books and teachings need to be thrown in the garbage.
@a targeted Christian I understand your point and agree with some of it. But, even if someone produces something that is biblical sound that persons actions can make it difficult to receive truth from them. That is why it is so important to let your walk match your talk. I can guarantee you that Jim Jones said some true things in some of his sermons. Would I recommend people to read and learn from Jim Jones? Why not? Yes McDonald has said some good things in the past and yes God probably used him in the past. But at what point has trust been lost to a point where it is hard to hear from that poisoned well? And by the way, scripture holds leaders to a different standard to those sitting in the pews. But yes, let anyone who thinks that he stands take heed lest he fall.
@For Such a Time As This you certainly aren’t trying to compare Jim Jones to James McDonald. To be honest, Jim Jones never was on point with scripture. His church was a political movement that is still prevalent today in many churches (reverend Wright’s church is a perfect example). But he also claimed to be God. James McDonald became greedy, but it doesn’t negate his works. I’m sure glad king David wasn’t negated after his sin with Bathsheba. Good Lord, one of his best scripture was written at that time. But like you said, leaders are held at a different standard. Should we tear all the scripture written by him after his fall? No! One thing is true in God’s business of grace, he doesn’t waist anything! If it isn’t true, then what are any of us men doing in those pews? What are we doing being father’s or husband because we all know a man will have impure thoughts sitting on his couch watching a simple commercial or driving by a highway billboard. We need to throw in the towel and give up our families because we failed and sinned. And your wife and kids are failures too because your failure negated any good you did before your fall. I’m obviously going far with this to prove a point. It is ludicrous to think any previous teachings should be tossed because someone publicly fell, never mind the daily falls no one sees or knows about except God. You are 100 percent correct that leaders are held at a higher standard, but we must discern of the sin, not the work done prior to that sin.
@a targeted Christian It seems you keep making excuses for behaviors going back 20 years. If all the reporting and testimonies are true then this was not a slip up. This was the normal pattern. That being the case I think the well is poisoned. I think that is where we differ. By the way, you can’t speak of forgiveness yet in this case because JM has not confessed to any wrong doing yet.
@For Such a Time As This I’m not making any excuses. I am speaking spiritual truth. But you are correct he has not asked for forgiveness. But going back 20 years? Allegations are always made of anyone in power. It does not make it true. I do think the man is guilty of some things, but I also know those that could have put a stop to it, did not. From being in power myself, I know someone is going to be hurt and angry. In turn, attitudes and the struggles of all involved come forth. It does not mean that God cannot use anything I have done as a leader. In fact, there is nothing I can do to stop God from moving or using my works in his name. Thankfully we serve a God that moves in spite of us. No sin is above any other. There is only one unforgivable sin…denying Him. I say this because, we all forget that we are full of sin moments after asking for forgiveness of our sins. There is one truth to sin, there is consequences. Jm is reaping that now. But I have no doubt he struggled with his sin, just as Paul did in the midst of his ministry. Still, GOD blessed them. I think me and you differ in judgement. I know my heart and how I fail God every day, but I know I want to serve Him. I can’t see in scripture, Anyone above reproach, but yet we keep acting like we do. Maybe a handful could be given above in faith, but the majority were not above…even the disciples who were present for Christ ministry. Maybe I am misunderstanding your approach, but I’m not seeing it. Plus, this person I responded to on this thread is confused thinking His church leadership is a mess for having him and others go through Jm study, when his church is completely correct in using that study. I can say with confidence that this person does not have to doubt. It is completely and utterly biblical. And no one should be made to feel otherwise based on non biblical fact.
…and all the while our church is using MacDonalds ‘Act Like Men’ book for the men’s life group. The book appears quite good at this point, but I am torn since the author appears to be not of good character in real life.
All this reminds me to trust in Christ alone since humans will always fail and disappoint.
…and all the while our church is using MacDonalds ‘Act Like Men’ book for the men’s life group. The book appears quite good at this point, but I am torn since the author appears to be not of good character in real life.
All this reminds me to trust in Christ alone since humans will always fail and disappoint.
Thank you, Pastor. BLESSINGS
Thank you!
There’s no doubt others at HBC top leadership allowed MacDonald to do what he wanted to do. So those are guilty too. Any organization must aspire towards full transparency. Only then will we see the fruits of our collective efforts…
Agreed. May I ask you a question? What site did you see this video on?
A tax free entity and they’re 42 million dollars in debt…!
brother there is a huge issue that is completely missing. One the body of Christ is NOT a corporation. Second the body of Christ functions with Christ the head of the body ministering HIMSELF directly VIS HIS Spirit. House gathering where you have open participatory gathering is the normative of BODY life. 1 Cor.14:26-38 Ephesians 4:16 We are each to hear the voice of the Spirit for our selves not one monologuing on a stage. This is the one man show AGAINST CHRIST JESUS THE LORD. Yes against Christ Jesus the lord. There is ONE Body in each city with many local gatherings in the homes of the fellow saints. Elders DO NOT MAKE DECISIONS ON BEHALF OF THE BODY. Harvest is a corporation and is so run as one. God is grieved by this man-made-model. The body of Christ is taking it’s rightful place with Christ Jesus HIMSELF directing and giving life to it. No tithing, no tax receipts, giving directly from giver to getter. Body life characterized by Spiritual communion in the Spirit functioning as we read in Ephesians 4:16.
When a man is in charge of a mega business church, which is raking in big money, greed and power will get the best of him.
Well done, Pastor
Thank you for you comment!
Thank you brother for this timely message! I am so grieved over all this. As someone who has been studying the scriptures for over 30 years it’s so encouraging to see men and women humbly walking with our Lord Jesus. Every Christian needs understand this portion of scripture just as you explained it. To examine others and themselves. Again solid biblical teaching. Thank you????
Agreed! Thanks for you comment.
Thank you brother for this timely message! I am so grieved over all this. As someone who has been studying the scriptures for over 30 years it’s so encouraging to see men and women humbly walking with our Lord Jesus. Every Christian needs understand this portion of scripture just as you explained it. To examine others and themselves. Again solid biblical teaching. Thank you🙏
Jesus Christ is Lord ✝️ Maranatha
Agreed!
Few years ago I asked an elder why do you have Santa claus inside this church? Do you believe in Santa I asked. He replied by saying ” it is for fun, for the children.” In that moment I knew that church was not of God, and left. All these mega churches always push the sheeple to observe the law by making them pay tithes. This hungry wolves one day will pay for stealing from the church.
The best defense against the wolves is studying to show ourselves approved! Thank you for you comment.
@For Such a Time As This I am surprised you quoted from the KJV and not from corrupted translation ESV.
Mega churches have no business in the Kingdom. Jesus said make disciples, not converts. You have to disciple and mega churches can’t possibly do that. Would James McDonald be content discipling 12 men alone? That’s we are all called to do.
Agreed! We disciple at New Hope. I hope at your church you all make disciples also. In my experience most Christians talk about discipleship but very few actually make disciples.
@For Such a Time As This Amen Brother…Sad but true!
@For Such a Time As This Very true! A friend of mine at my church has been discipling me for almost 2 years now. About a year into our discipleship, I started a discipleship (not sure that’s a word) with a friend of mine at church. It’s been a little over a year, and now my friend is starting to initiate the same thing with one of his friends.
@For Such a Time As This Very true! A friend of mine at my church has been discipling me for almost 2 years now. About a year into our discipleship, I started a discipleship (not sure that’s a word) with a friend of mine at church. It’s been a little over a year, and now my friend is starting to initiate the same thing with one of his friends.
@Grimmett Janitorial Services, LLC Now that is true discipleship. That is the church truly at work. What church do you attend?
@Grimmett Cleaning Services Now that is true discipleship. That is the church truly at work. What church do you attend?
Thank you for this well-spoken biblical view on the taking of money in the church. It’s so devastating but I believe God is calling his people out of buildings by revealing the corruption within them.
I could not agree with you more!
Just think of the damage this has done to the people who attended this Church.
Yes. However, when we are hoodwinked we must examine ourselves to see if we share any responsibility. We so often believe what we want to believe. Discernment is important. https://youtu.be/bKfrfqoBxPE
@For Such a Time As This So true! I’m in a season where God is revealing to me that Pastors are not God, the idol worship regarding pastors (I suffered from that myself a few years ago), and that what is done in the dark will come to light. I’m learning the principle of praying for leadership, as well as staying informed and asking questions. Thankfully, I attend a church that believes in transparency. We call our members “owners”, and we have a annual “owner’s meeting”. It’s similar in theory, to when stock holders attend those stock holder meetings once or twice a year. They inform us where the money is spent, new plans for the year, announcements for new outreach programs or mission trips, etc. Technically, owners are required to attend. I have for the last seven years.
@For Such a Time As This So true! I’m in a season where God is revealing to me that Pastors are not God, the idol worship regarding pastors (I suffered from that myself a few years ago), and that what is done in the dark will come to light. I’m learning the principle of praying for leadership, as well as staying informed and asking questions. Thankfully, I attend a church that believes in transparency. We call our members “owners”, and we have a annual “owner’s meeting”. It’s similar in theory, to when stock holders attend those stock holder meetings once or twice a year. They inform us where the money is spent, new plans for the year, announcements for new outreach programs or mission trips, etc. Technically, owners are required to attend. I have for the last seven years.
@Grimmett Janitorial Services, LLC Great! Glad you have a good one. Too few out there in my opinion.
@Grimmett Cleaning Services Great! Glad you have a good one. Too few out there in my opinion.
42- 70 million dollars in debt!?!?
Insanity!!!!
Agreed. And that much has been public knowledge for years.
They ain’t the government. They can’t print money.
42- 70 million dollars in debt!?!?
Insanity!!!!
Thank you sir for this teaching. Very interesting to listen to, and an appropriate Scripture you referenced!
You are welcome Will.
Never liked him I remember first listening to him and he was saying only pastors have authority……Wrong
Yes. Authoritarianism appears to be part of the package.
Harvest bible chapel
Willow creek church
Will be bankrupt soon
Jesus started one church and said it would last forever.
The Roman Catholic Church
Different discussion Him.
This ministry needs to end. It is a blackeye on Christianity and churches. If any pastors live in big fancy showy houses and drive big flashy cars you should flee from that church. No true man of God would want anything to do with that.
I LOVE what this pastor has to say! He knows the WORD.
THIS IS MY TESTIMONY OF HOW GOD HAS SAVED ME FROM THESE EVIL PEOPLE AND SPIRITS WHO CONTROL THIS WICKED WORLD.
HOW THEY DECEIVE, IS THE SAME METHOD ON HOW THEY PERSECUTE. THEY HIDE THAT BY CALLING MENTAL ILLNESSES RATHER THAT MENTAL (SPIRITUAL) PERSECUTION. WE ARE IN ARMAGEDDON, WHICH IS MENTAL BATTLE.
The Holy Bible is God’s words. God reveals His words through His servants the prophets. The prophets who wrote the Holy Bible and saw visions were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. The works of the Holy Spirit will bring your mind to the Holy Bible, convict that you are a sinner and need a Savior and most of all does not pretend, lies and force you to do things. God created us with freedom. Most of the people in our society today are being control by these evil spirits (counterfeit holy spirits) through this mind control game. The counterfeit holy spirits will dictate your mind outside the Holy Bible, giving you thoughts that is not in harmony with God’s word and can manipulate human thoughts and feelings to do satan’s will. Beware that this counterfeit holy spirit uses both some truths and errors when they tempt you to do something. It is very important that you pray to Our Lord Jesus Christ without ceasing to protect your mind from these counterfeit holy spirits that can give you thoughts of doubts and confusion and the spirit of fear. Only through the words of God, prayers and the power of the Holy Spirit we can defeat these evil spirits, demons, and devils’s temptation, not in our own strength. Make sure that everything you do, you are edifying God not yourself. Think about God and His words wherever you are – that is praying without ceasing and do not depend on human protection but solely depend on God and His Holy Angels through His words in Holy Bible. The only weapons we have against these supernatural powers are God’s word. No demon-possessed persons nor evil spirits would succeed when they tempt you and attack your mind through this hypnosis or mind control that satan and his fallen angels use to harass, abuse and scare God’s people and then call “mentally ill”. Always remember God’s people do not involve in this mind control game. They are innocent in these tactics that satan uses to scare innocent person and then put in the hospital and called this so-called “mentally ill” or even called you this so-called “terrorist” if you do not obey this secret system that are in our society. My brother and sister were victims of these demonic harassment and abused and killed afterwards. The worst part was, satan had used my own family to achieve their goals. My own sister was raped by my own father who is a demon-possessed. I myself was also a victim of these demonic harassment that is in our society today. I was harassed by almost every person i have encountered whether at work or in the street and even in my own place including my friends. But i ignored what i heard and seen from them and other mediums that satan uses to control my thoughts and feelings to harass and abuse me. In 2011, as i was watching video in my computer, the demons used the program that i was watching as they often do to communicate with me, harassed and called me terrorist and all sorts of things to scare me. As i stand up from the couch to ignore them again, all of the sudden i fell on the floor and i felt someone holding my head to protect me as my body was touching the floor and heard worried voices like “oohhh!”. God already protecting me against these supernatural powers in high places or demons at that time without my knowledge. I knew that was the work of the evil spirit why i was almost passed out. So i went out from my apartment, got outside went to one of my friend’s house nearby but he did not open the door for me so i just stayed outside to pass the time pretending like i was not afraid, for i know at that time that was satan’s primary objective to scare me. While i was outside i tried to buy something at the store, but the guy in the store did not sell anything to me and did not even look at my face, so i decided not to question him because i knew his being controlled by these evil spirits. I stayed outside for about 40 minutes and i remembered that my wife was in the room, and i started to worry about what these demons would do to her. I decided to go back to my place and checked if she was okay. As i opened the door, i saw her in the living room and told me that she was feeling dizzy and I notice she was slurred in speech. So i knew at that time the reasons why she felt sick because of these demons controlling her mind, but i was not fully aware at that time that my wife is also a demon-possessed like my family. So, i put her back in the room and worried about her situation more than mine. Thinking what to do, i decided to open my mouth and talked to these evil spirits for i know they are listening and watching and waiting for you to make mistakes in the words that you speak and not being consistent of what you are saying. So, i told them that you can take me and do whatever you want, just do not hurt my wife. After i said that, i pretended to hurt my wife to create a scene just to get their attentions and reasons to get me. After a while the police officers came to my place without anybody physically called them on the phone and handcuffed me. That means satan is controlling the mind of these police officers, i knew they will come and arrested me, not because i replied of what they have done to me or did something wrong to anyone, but because of every time i step outside they threaten me not only the police but by almost everyone. I was thinking that they will bring me to some kind of special investigation knowing during that time, the evil spirits were using the media (t.v., internet, radio, etc.) and people as a medium to communicate and harassed me and called me a “terrorist” and all sorts of things.
THIS IS MY TESTIMONY OF HOW GOD HAS SAVED ME FROM THESE EVIL PEOPLE AND SPIRITS WHO CONTROL THIS WICKED WORLD.
HOW THEY DECEIVE, IS THE SAME METHOD ON HOW THEY PERSECUTE. THEY HIDE THAT BY CALLING MENTAL ILLNESSES RATHER THAT MENTAL (SPIRITUAL) PERSECUTION. WE ARE IN ARMAGEDDON, WHICH IS MENTAL BATTLE.
The Holy Bible is God’s words. God reveals His words through His servants the prophets. The prophets who wrote the Holy Bible and saw visions were inspired by the power of the Holy Spirit. The works of the Holy Spirit will bring your mind to the Holy Bible, convict that you are a sinner and need a Savior and most of all does not pretend, lies and force you to do things. God created us with freedom. Most of the people in our society today are being control by these evil spirits (counterfeit holy spirits) through this mind control game. The counterfeit holy spirits will dictate your mind outside the Holy Bible, giving you thoughts that is not in harmony with God’s word and can manipulate human thoughts and feelings to do satan’s will. Beware that this counterfeit holy spirit uses both some truths and errors when they tempt you to do something. It is very important that you pray to Our Lord Jesus Christ without ceasing to protect your mind from these counterfeit holy spirits that can give you thoughts of doubts and confusion and the spirit of fear. Only through the words of God, prayers and the power of the Holy Spirit we can defeat these evil spirits, demons, and devils’s temptation, not in our own strength. Make sure that everything you do, you are edifying God not yourself. Think about God and His words wherever you are – that is praying without ceasing and do not depend on human protection but solely depend on God and His Holy Angels through His words in Holy Bible. The only weapons we have against these supernatural powers are God’s word. No demon-possessed persons nor evil spirits would succeed when they tempt you and attack your mind through this hypnosis or mind control that satan and his fallen angels use to harass, abuse and scare God’s people and then call “mentally ill”. Always remember God’s people do not involve in this mind control game. They are innocent in these tactics that satan uses to scare innocent person and then put in the hospital and called this so-called “mentally ill” or even called you this so-called “terrorist” if you do not obey this secret system that are in our society. My brother and sister were victims of these demonic harassment and abused and killed afterwards. The worst part was, satan had used my own family to achieve their goals. My own sister was raped by my own father who is a demon-possessed. I myself was also a victim of these demonic harassment that is in our society today. I was harassed by almost every person i have encountered whether at work or in the street and even in my own place including my friends. But i ignored what i heard and seen from them and other mediums that satan uses to control my thoughts and feelings to harass and abuse me. In 2011, as i was watching video in my computer, the demons used the program that i was watching as they often do to communicate with me, harassed and called me terrorist and all sorts of things to scare me. As i stand up from the couch to ignore them again, all of the sudden i fell on the floor and i felt someone holding my head to protect me as my body was touching the floor and heard worried voices like “oohhh!”. God already protecting me against these supernatural powers in high places or demons at that time without my knowledge. I knew that was the work of the evil spirit why i was almost passed out. So i went out from my apartment, got outside went to one of my friend’s house nearby but he did not open the door for me so i just stayed outside to pass the time pretending like i was not afraid, for i know at that time that was satan’s primary objective to scare me. While i was outside i tried to buy something at the store, but the guy in the store did not sell anything to me and did not even look at my face, so i decided not to question him because i knew his being controlled by these evil spirits. I stayed outside for about 40 minutes and i remembered that my wife was in the room, and i started to worry about what these demons would do to her. I decided to go back to my place and checked if she was okay. As i opened the door, i saw her in the living room and told me that she was feeling dizzy and I notice she was slurred in speech. So i knew at that time the reasons why she felt sick because of these demons controlling her mind, but i was not fully aware at that time that my wife is also a demon-possessed like my family. So, i put her back in the room and worried about her situation more than mine. Thinking what to do, i decided to open my mouth and talked to these evil spirits for i know they are listening and watching and waiting for you to make mistakes in the words that you speak and not being consistent of what you are saying. So, i told them that you can take me and do whatever you want, just do not hurt my wife. After i said that, i pretended to hurt my wife to create a scene just to get their attentions and reasons to get me. After a while the police officers came to my place without anybody physically called them on the phone and handcuffed me. That means satan is controlling the mind of these police officers, i knew they will come and arrested me, not because i replied of what they have done to me or did something wrong to anyone, but because of every time i step outside they threaten me not only the police but by almost everyone. I was thinking that they will bring me to some kind of special investigation knowing during that time, the evil spirits were using the media (t.v., internet, radio, etc.) and people as a medium to communicate and harassed me and called me a “terrorist” and all sorts of things.
Good stuff. Thanks bro
Typical American mega church. Preaching the word in Truth is hard to come by.
Thank you so much for covering this sensitive information from the word and not from gossip
Thank you so much for covering this sensitive information from the word and not from gossip
Evil men have crept in unawares……….. Making that which is good, appear evil.
John MacArthur says he sees no evidence in the N.T. that a pastor has any authority over church members.
There are a whole lot of accusers around here. It’s a bit disturbing that so many “brethren” are lobbying various accusations. Surely you’ve all read “Mercy is better than judgement” & “judgement will be shown to him who is without mercy” & “do not judge (intentions)”. Does any of that speak to you?
Secondly, do people here understand that receiving, collecting, or requesting donations FOR church expansion/ growth/ ministry is NOT a sin. However if it’s for personal enrichment, that is entirely different. Can anyone here say (or judge) his intentions were for self gain?? – No you cannot.
Do you people not know that the biblical record reveals many flawed people, from the obvious Adam&Eve to Moses who killed a man, to King David who took another mans wife then had the husband setup/ killed & on& on.
Even the most foolish Judge understands that there are two sides to every story. Has anyone here talked to James McDonald? Do you know his side of the story?
First of all, Harvest leadership chose to make this a public issue–not me (public lawsuits and press releases). Second, are you claiming that these are nothing more than accusations? Have you read the multiple confessions of elders and leaders of Harvest confessing their sins and asking for forgiveness? In the face of these public statements JM has remained silent and stepped down from leadership without a word. Are you still defending him? Have you not read the multiple statements of extravagant expense accounts, houses and vacations, none of which expanded church growth? It has, in fact hindered church growth. Have you listened to the recordings? I don’t think you are honest in your assessment of this situation. We are far beyond hearsay and accusations. Question: Have you actually read the statements and testimonies against JM?
Why do so many Canadian Pastors flee Canada to preach in the U.S. like James MacDonald has? Why do they keep forcing Reformed Theology and Calvinism on every community?
Fire all the elders and campus pastors. They all knew what was going on and most involved with it. FIRE THEM!
The problem is that the elders and executive board are the ones who do the hiring and firing. The foxes are ‘guarding’ the henhouse. If they truly understood that gravity of what they have done and they were truly repentant they would step down themselves.
As soon as you speak the name of Mancow Muller you lose your credibility. You’re a sinner too. Get off your throne!
No one here is saying that Mancow Muller is some great Christian, but truth is truth. If God can even use a donkey to speak truth should we just disregard Mancow?
Was Paul on a throne when he called out false teachers?
Gossiping christians? An oxymoron!
If you have a point then make it. Is it that you can’t reason and make a point so you just throw stones?
70 mmmmillion? Million? No! That’s insane!
70 mmmmillion? Million? No! That’s insane!
All, I can say is I’m hurting like many church congregation. I’m attending Catholic church and I’m only giving $1usd in the gift basket.
I am sorry for that. Keep seeking Him and He can and will heal.
All, I can say is I’m hurting like many church congregation. I’m attending Catholic church and I’m only giving $1usd in the gift basket.
It will come. To the light
I truly take issues with the non denominational churches like this and their limited oversight. Many of these churches have elder boards made up of long distance preachers who never hold anyone accountable and others have family members, both should be changed
I understand your frustration but I am not sure the denomination churches have better oversight. I know of denomination churches with same problems.
Amen pastor. I pastor a small church and when I print up sermons I will save them to my computer so I have them. I will also save the printed pages so I can use the other side to print another sermon. We can’t squander God’s money in our private lives and most assuredly we can’t do it in the church.
Amen. Where do you pastor the church?
@For Such a Time As This In Pennsylvania. We’ve been here for 1 1/2 yrs. I spent 12 years in my home state of Indiana. Before that I spent six years in Illinois.
God bless you and your ministry!
WOW , A PASTOR THAT GOES TO “THE WORD” AMEN , THANK YOU FOR YOUR WILLINGNESS TO GO TO THE TRUTH, , PROV : 27-19
I so appreciate this discussion and Pastor James examining the issue through the lens of Scripture as well as his obvious intimate familiarity with Scripture, which was totally lacking in the WTS graduate at the Khrist Kovenant Kountry Klub in Crystal Lake, Illinois.